#WNBL20: notes from a historic season launch


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In the genteel surrounds of Old Parliament House, the WNBL launched its 40th season. The Evening Game was there to soak up the occasion and quiz some of the competition’s key players on the upcoming campaign.

Defending champions start as favourites

With Kia Nurse, Marianna Tolo and reigning MVP Kelsey Griffin all back on board, the University of Canberra Capitals’ squad retains plenty of its championship lustre heading into #WNBL20.

By the time last year’s finals rolled around, the Capitals were less a team with momentum than a basketballing avalanche, but there was still a genuinely challenging moment for them after losing game two of the finals. The match saw them endure one of the most dramatic and heartbreaking defeats in a WNBL decider. Coach Paul Goriss gives an insight into how they picked themselves up after it.

“It wasn’t so much the physical fatigue, it was more mental fatigue,” he explains. “I won’t hide the fact that it took us a full day to get over the hurt and pain of that loss. But I think that’s what drove us in game three. We wanted to make amends.”

Nicole Seekamp’s last-second game-winner forced the first finals game three in WNBL history, but the setback had a silver lining for Gorris’ team. “It gave us the opportunity to come back home and win it in front of our home crowd, which was really important to us.”

Goriss believes every WNBL team have improved their squad since last year but that his team is well-equipped despite losing two of the league’s all-time great point guards in Leilani Mitchell and Kelly Wilson. “There’s not a replacement for those two, but it’s about getting the next best player we can,” he says. 

“Their experience and knowledge of the league is a huge loss but we’ve got Olivia Epoupa coming in and she’s played in big games in Europe and for France in the Olympics and World Championships.”

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Bendigo Spirit: killers on the road?

Diminuitive point guard Tessa Lavey inspired baffled laughter through the grand Old Parliament House members’ room when she revealed the Spirit had been playing “the murder game” on a recent pre-season road trip.

“It’s really fun,” she told The Evening Game, outlining the rules, which see players draw either a V (for victim) or an M (for murderer) out of a hat and then plot to figure out the assigned killer.

On-court, the Spirit promise to be just as fun, if a little less murder-y. The whippet-like Lavey is made for up-tempo basketball and says she opted for a return to Bendigo partly for the run and gun offence new coach Tracy York plans to implement.

“We’re going to try to lead from our defence, make sure we get in the lanes, make teams do something different and then just run,” Lavey says. Expect full-court presses and fast-break points galore.

Small-ball line-ups are also likely to be part of the M.O, with Lavey likening their new offence to the multiple-guard groups York oversaw as assistant coach of the Adelaide 36ers.

She anticipates playing long minutes alongside Kelly Wilson. “I think we’ll play a lot of swing one-two, where whoever gets the ball runs the play and vice versa.” It looms as an, ahem, killer backcourt pairing.

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The Sydney-Canberra shuffle

Lauren Scherf has switched from the Capitals to the University of Sydney Flames, a transfer that should instantly improve the latter’s rebounding and second chance points tallies. These were two areas where they struggled mightily last season after the injury-enforced absence of Alex Bunton.

The Flames have a new coach (Katrina Hibbert) and a new look without retired leader Belinda Snell, but Scherf says they still have some of the DNA of the side that romped emphatically to a championship in 2016/17.

“There’s still a few girls there and they’re very hard-working and passionate, so it’s a good environment. ‘Froggy’ (Hibbert) brings a lot of energy and a good atmosphere to the team, so I think if we have a good spirit, we can really do well.”

Standing at 196cm (6”4), Scherf could be pigeonholed as an interior player, but she’s seen the recent trend towards more and more three-pointers reshape the game and doesn’t mind it one bit.

“I do love to shoot a three myself,” she laughs. “(Bigs) being able to spread the floor, it’s changing the game. It’s making this league and the international game ten times better.”

WNBL: Sara Blicavs on returning to the Rangers, new TV deal and grand final revenge

Co-winner of the Dandenong Rangers MVP in season 2016/17, Sara Blicavs has re-committed to the team and is already looking forward to another run at the finals. Although her return to the team was only officially announced last week, Blicavs says she never had any intention of leaving. “I was always going to play with Dandenong again, how could you not?”.

               The Rangers runner up finish will prove a major source of motivation. “Making the finals and coming so close, it just adds fuel to the fire” she says. Coming off her best WNBL season to date, Blicavs seems to be moving into her prime as a player. “She’s only just now realising the damage she can do” Rangers coach Larissa Anderson told this site earlier in the year.


Blicavs drives against finals foe Asia Taylor.Blicavs drives against finals foe Asia Taylor.

Blicavs drives against finals foe Asia Taylor.

The recently announced TV partnership with Fox Sports also adds to the interest in the coming season. “It’s so exciting” she says. “It’s really helped getting bigger names into the league, already you’ve seen Liz (Cambage) and Jenna O’Hea return”. Blicavs remembers the disappointment of the league losing coverage when she was at the AIS and is elated at the long-awaited return to TV. “It’s amazing to see the league will be getting the coverage that it’s worthy of”.

            While Dandenong teammates Aimie Clydesdale, Nat Novosel and Lauren Scherf have all moved to other clubs and legend Jacinta Kennedy has retired, the Rangers have not sat idle in free agency.


Blicavs and Steph Cumming shared the club MVP award and will again be a huge part of the Rangers core.Blicavs and Steph Cumming shared the club MVP award and will again be a huge part of the Rangers core.

Blicavs and Steph Cumming shared the club MVP award and will again be a huge part of the Rangers core.

They’ve recently re-signed club co-MVP (and The Evening Game favourite) Steph Cumming and have been strongly linked to Conneticut Suns forward Kayla Pederson. They are expected to announce the signing of Olympian one guard Tessa Lavey shortly and have pulled off a coup by signing stretch four/five Carley Mijovic, one of the league’s most lavishly talented players.

            The return of Mijovic to her junior club is one that Blicavs welcomes with open arms. “I can’t wait” Blicavs says of reuniting with her former AIS teammate. “She’s one of my closest friends. She’s going to bring a lot of scoring power and that real feistiness to the team, and obviously she’s 6’6, so it’s really exciting”.

            Fifth in WNBL MVP voting last season, Blicavs says she wants to add even more consistency to her game in the coming campaign. “I set mini-goals for each game, and I want to turn the good games from last year into great games, and the bad games into good games”. She is also working on raising her three-point percentage, which already stood at a healthy 39% last year, fifth amongst WNBL players who took at least 50 outside shots.


Silly squad: Dandenong Rangers celebrate Turtle Power on Mad Monday. Photo: Instagram, @sarablicavsSilly squad: Dandenong Rangers celebrate Turtle Power on Mad Monday. Photo: Instagram, @sarablicavs

Silly squad: Dandenong Rangers celebrate Turtle Power on Mad Monday. Photo: Instagram, @sarablicavs

Whether winning or losing (though there was definitely more winning), the Rangers always seemed to be having a great time last season. Blicavs says their close-knit nature is a huge part of their identity. “That’s what gets us so far, that we’re really close on and off the court. Larissa is really big on personalities, getting the right personality that will fit into the team…we really make an effort to do things together away from basketball”.

             A popular figure on social media, Blicavs comes across as a very upbeat personality, but it would be a grave mistake to see her amiability as a lack of competitive fire. Clearly, the grand final loss still burns and is one she is determined to avenge. “There’s a few grudges against Sydney, I’ll tell you that!” she says.

 

Sara Blicavs 2016/17 statistics

Points per game: 15.45 (9th in league)

Rebounds per game: 7.00 (12th)

Steals: 43 (4th)

Efficiency: 14.45

WNBL: Cheryl Chambers on Sydney’s drought-breaking championship win.

When the questions ended and it was time for coach Cheryl Chambers and Asia Taylor to file out of the championship game press conference, the good-natured banter between the pair showed no signs of wrapping up. They couldn’t help themselves.

          This is the kind of chemistry that gets you championships and for the Flames, it was there almost from right from the start. Two games into the season, they had a team meeting to address the defensive lapses which saw them begin the season with a pair of losses. Yet the mood was one of complete confidence.

“We all looked around the room and thought ‘You know, this is a pretty special group’” Chambers says. “We had a mix of old players and young players, introverts and extroverts, but there has always been a pretty good feeling within the group”.

          The idea of creating a cohesive unit, that got on off the court and would play for each other, was central to putting the squad together and preparing for the season. “Teams that have won championships and been successful have great chemistry” Chambers says. “We did some weird and wacky things that would connect us”.

“We all looked around the room and thought ‘You know this is a pretty special group’” Chambers says.

          Beyond the chemistry, it was a shrewdly assembled group, both deep and balanced, giving Chambers, returning to WNBL coaching for the first time since 2009, a multi-faceted, shape-shifting team to work with.

The aforementioned Taylor ended up fitting the team like a tailor-made glove, but Chambers says signing the Louisville alum was a difficult process. “It was quite nerve-wracking” she says. “I always find it hard to recruit someone I haven’t physically seen so I kept saying to her agent ‘Can I see some more film?’ I wanted more and more film…but we were really keen to get an X-factor”


Asia Taylor had a quick first step that made her a handful; here she blows past Adelaide's Coleen Planeta.Asia Taylor had a quick first step that made her a handful; here she blows past Adelaide's Coleen Planeta.

Asia Taylor had a quick first step that made her a handful; here she blows past Adelaide’s Coleen Planeta.

          Taylor was all that and more, giving the Flames points in bunches and proving a nightmare matchup for every team with her explosiveness and deceptive strength. While Taylor was the team’s heat check wildcard, heady veterans Leilani Mitchell and Belinda Snell were invaluable steadying presences.

          Snell was entering her nineteenth season in top-flight basketball, but her game has always relied more on excellent fundamentals, high-level shooting and basketball smarts than raw athleticism and she remained mightily effective, ranking high in assists per game (5th), points per game (17th), and steals (13th).

          Snell’s ability to cover multiple positions was a key facet of a Flames team that could go big with strong rebounders like Shanae Graeves and Carly Boag teaming with Taylor and the imposing Jen Hamson in the frontcourt, and using Snell at shooting guard. They could also go small, playing multiple guards.

Most of the backcourt players rebounded well above their height, with Snell, Lauren Nicholson and Tahlia Tupaea all coming up with enough boards that teams couldn’t really punish their shorter lineups. Even the tiny Mitchell collected her share of long rebounds. Chambers said Snell ended up playing much more power forward than the team expected, but the team’s malleable nature proved a real asset.


Belinda Snell had more assists than any non point guard in the league. Here, she spots a Leilani Mitchell backdoor cut before anyone else and throws an exquisite pass.Belinda Snell had more assists than any non point guard in the league. Here, she spots a Leilani Mitchell backdoor cut before anyone else and throws an exquisite pass.

Belinda Snell had more assists than any non point guard in the league. Here, she spots a Leilani Mitchell backdoor cut before anyone else and throws an exquisite pass.

This off-season, Snell will be one of the assistant coaches for Sydney’s new SEABL team, the Sparks, and Chambers says she has the basketball knowledge to succeed in this new role. “If something’s not working on court, she’s always got an idea to fix it and it’s not always about her, she’s very selfless”.

Leilani Mitchell was also invaluable, playing the most minutes of any player in the league (1042). While every other team had a swoon at some point of the season which led to a run of losses, in the back half of the season Sydney started to do that thing all champion teams do: win games without coming close to playing their best. In matches against Melbourne, Canberra and Adelaide, they struggled for rhythm, but on each occasion Sydney had Leilani Mitchell and the opposition didn’t, so Sydney won.

          Chambers particularly remembers Mitchell’s nerveless approach as she hit the game-winner against Canberra: “She just coolly looked up and saw what he had in front of her and decided to run a closeout play”. The run of close wins gave the team irresistible momentum and by the grand final series they had won ten in a row and looked inevitable champions.


Leilani Mitchell consistently made big clutch plays. Here, she hits a game-winning jumper against Canberra. "She just coolly looked up and saw what she had in front of her" remembers Chambers.Leilani Mitchell consistently made big clutch plays. Here, she hits a game-winning jumper against Canberra. "She just coolly looked up and saw what she had in front of her" remembers Chambers.

Leilani Mitchell consistently made big clutch plays. Here, she hits a game-winning jumper against Canberra. “She just coolly looked up and saw what she had in front of her” remembers Chambers.

Ranking first in assists and second in steals, Mitchell was the ideal point guard: always thinking team-first, but more than capable creating her own shot or scoring herself. Perth coach Andy Stewart suggested Mitchell wouldn’t have been far off the league MVP. “She was a very, very difficult cover for us, not just with her scoring, but her ability to play-make and find the open shooter”.


Sarah Graham led the league in three-point percentage with 54%.Sarah Graham led the league in three-point percentage with 54%.

Sarah Graham led the league in three-point percentage with 54%.

          Those open shooters represented yet another strength for the Flames, who shot 38.90% from distance, the best of any team. Snell, Mitchell, Wilson all made more than 50 three-pointers at a good clip, while Tupaea and Nicholson were effective at lower volume. As if this wasn’t enough to torment teams, they could throw in Sarah Graham, who had the competition’s highest three-point percentage (54%).

On the defensive end, the Flames protected the rim ferociously and comfortably had the most blocked shots of any squad. Jen Hamson used every inch of her 6’9 wingspan to tally 63 blocks, first in the league. When Hamson was able to avoid foul trouble, she was a real handful, piling up rebounds as well as setting good picks and rolling hard to the rim. “One night (the players) came off and I said, ‘Wow, you’re defending well’” Chambers recalls. “Someone said ‘Yeah, that’s because Jen is out there changing every single shot’.


"Jen is out there changing every single shot". Jen Hamson was the competition's leading shot-blocker."Jen is out there changing every single shot". Jen Hamson was the competition's leading shot-blocker.

“Jen is out there changing every single shot”. Jen Hamson was the competition’s leading shot-blocker.

          Ally Wilson was one of the most improved players in the competition and came up huge in the post-season, rampaging towards 27 points against Townsville. Chambers had coached Wilson previously in junior teams and considered her “a great athlete” who was ready to contribute more at WNBL level. “In the pre-season I said to her ‘I think that there can be huge improvement in you’” Chambers says. The season saw Wilson expand her game significantly, increasingly showing an ability to break defenders down off the triple and cut to the rim for easy baskets. She also handled some huge defensive assignments with aplomb, restricting Perth phenom Sami Whitcomb to 4/17 shooting in an important home win.


Ally Wilson had her best WNBL season, showing new dimensions to her game.Ally Wilson had her best WNBL season, showing new dimensions to her game.

Ally Wilson had her best WNBL season, showing new dimensions to her game.

Lauren Nicholson was another strong addition, making some big threes late in the season and playing low turnover basketball. Despite the enviable depth that players like Nicholson gave them, the Flames were tested by injuries at times, with Snell, Taylor and Nicholson herself all missing games, while Tahlia Tupaea sat out half the regular season with a foot injury and Hayley Moffatt had the wretched luck of sustaining an ACL injury in the opening game.

          Tupaea contributed steadily at both ends after returning, giving Sydney a starting calibre guard off the bench and chipping in 18 points and 10 rebounds in the series-clinching victory over Townsville. Tupaea seems to have been around for a while, but at just 19 she is easily one of the top prospects in Australian basketball and on track to be a future Opal.

          Joining Tupaea in the youth department were Cassidy McLean and Lara McSpadden, who had both been members of Australia’s all-conquering under 17s team. Chambers says McLean has “unlimited potential” and the nimble guard impressed the team with her competitive nature. “At training, she certainly didn’t take a backwards step” Chambers says of McLean. “She always wanted to match up with Leilani”.


The Flames have some great young prospects alongside their experienced core. Here, Cassidy McLean assists on a Tahlia Tupaea basket.The Flames have some great young prospects alongside their experienced core. Here, Cassidy McLean assists on a Tahlia Tupaea basket.

The Flames have some great young prospects alongside their experienced core. Here, Cassidy McLean assists on a Tahlia Tupaea basket.

          The team’s other rookie, centre Lara McSpadden, projects as a good rebounder and shot-blocker and moves well for a big. Chambers likes her fundamentals (“She’s pretty tenacious, she can find the ball”) and was won over by her work ethic. “She’s really motivated, I never had to go and find her to do individuals, she was also into me first to do them”.

          So far, Wilson, Snell, Graeves and McSpadden are contracted for next year and Chambers is not underestimating the difficulty of keeping this stacked squad together, noting that as the Flames were playing in the semi-finals, other eliminated teams were already at work on identifying talent and planning for next year.

“There will be big budgets coming after our girls” she says. “But it was a wonderful year, and anyone who wants to come back, we’d absolutely love to have them”.

Asked whether the grand final win has sunk in yet, Chambers says “The enormity of it is probably still to come”. It may take a while to adjust to their new status as champions, but the Flames made a little bit of history this year. It’s a victory that will longer long; as Chambers told her players after the final siren sounded: “We’re bonded forever”

WNBL: Dandenong coach Larissa Anderson on the Rangers grand final run

Before season 2016/17 tipped off, Dandenong star Sara Blicavs predicted the side woul be “that annoying, youthful, speedy side that oppositions don’t like to play against”. They were all that and more, powering through the odd flat spot (like a late four game losing streak) to a 19-5 record and a home semi-final berth.

         “It was a phenomenal effort to make the grand final” coach Larissa Anderson says. They eventually fell to a Sydney outfit who were not so much a team with momentum as a full-on basketball avalanche, entering the finals on a 12-game winning streak and coming off a comprehensive slaying of defending champions Townsville.

          Still, Dandenong weren’t satisfied with being runners up and Anderson feels they had more to give. “I don’t think we put our best foot forward in that series” she says of the 2-0 grand final loss. “We all know we could have done better,  but you learn a great deal from the experience”.


Dandenong had a switchy, versatile defence. In these stills from game 2 of the grand final series, Leilani Mitchell is guarded by (from top to bottom) Aimie Clydesdale, Natalie Novosel and Amelia Todhunter. Dandenong had a switchy, versatile defence. In these stills from game 2 of the grand final series, Leilani Mitchell is guarded by (from top to bottom) Aimie Clydesdale, Natalie Novosel and Amelia Todhunter. 

Dandenong had a switchy, versatile defence. In these stills from game 2 of the grand final series, Leilani Mitchell is guarded by (from top to bottom) Aimie Clydesdale, Natalie Novosel and Amelia Todhunter. 

          Injuries had been a subplot for Dandenong all year and raised their head during the finals. The team kept this quiet at the time, but import Ally Malott was again playing through significant injuries, having previously suffered ankle and foot problems and been on a minutes restriction earlier in the season. Before the grand final series, she had suffered a new knee injury which meant she couldn’t push off or get any power.“I really felt for Al” Anderson says. “She had injury after injury. She was in quite a bit of pain, and losing her for that series was a big loss for us, she is a quality player that made a large impact when she was fully fit”.


Steph Cumming continued to be an all-round contributor and tough bucket maker for the team. "She is Dandenong through and through" says Anderson.Steph Cumming continued to be an all-round contributor and tough bucket maker for the team. "She is Dandenong through and through" says Anderson.

Steph Cumming continued to be an all-round contributor and tough bucket maker for the team. “She is Dandenong through and through” says Anderson.

          If opponents didn’t like playing against Dandenong, one of the main reasons why was the all-round play of Steph Cumming, who finished in the league’s top 20 for points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, three-point percentage and free throw percentage. Perhaps unsurprisingly, she was the only player to appear in every one of these lists.

          Cumming shared the team’s MVP award with Sara Blicavs, who enjoyed her best WLBL season yet. A self-described “coffee coinnosseur”, Blicavs was like a human triple espresso shot for the Rangers this year, forever energising the team with her all action inside/outside game.


Sara Blicavs takes it to the hoop against finals opponent Asia Taylor. "Her playing ability is endless".Sara Blicavs takes it to the hoop against finals opponent Asia Taylor. "Her playing ability is endless".

Sara Blicavs takes it to the hoop against finals opponent Asia Taylor. “Her playing ability is endless”.

Asked whether Blicavs could one day be MVP of the league, Anderson has no hesitation. “Absolutely” she says. “Her playing ability is endless and she’s only just now realising the damage she can do”. Anderson says Blicavs’ energy and personality were also keys to the team’s success. “She’s always happy, and always happy for her teammates. She’s a phenomenal team player”

Larissa Anderson on Sara Blicavs: “Her playing ability is endless. She’s only just now realising the damage she can do”

          The Rangers firepower went well beyond their two leading scorers; apart from Sydney there was no deeper team in the league. Perth coach Andy Stewart felt the greater scoring power of the Rangers bench was the key factor in his team’s semi-final loss to Dandenong. They were a stacked and versatile unit, able to go big or small and bring match-winners off the bench depending on the matchup.

          Anderson says the team’s depth made it hard to get rotations right at times, but she notes she would always take a deep squad over a top-heavy one. “We were deep, but at the same time still very young, so different players contributed in different ways each week”.


Two things that worked well for Dandenong in season 2016/17: crisp ball movement and Natalie Novosel shooting threes.Two things that worked well for Dandenong in season 2016/17: crisp ball movement and Natalie Novosel shooting threes.

Two things that worked well for Dandenong in season 2016/17: crisp ball movement and Natalie Novosel shooting threes.

          Natalie Novosel was one of the players who gave them such enviable depth, and although knee injuries affected her season, the new acquisition was again one of the competition’s sharpest three-point shooters (44%), made smart passes and consistently drew contact and got to the foul line. Anderson is quick to point out that Novosel was an excellent addition to the squad. “We knew Nat would fit really well with this group and she settled in very quickly. She brings a great deal on and off the floor”

          Another beastly defender off the bench was Rosie Fadljevic, who hustled hard and could be used to defend multiple positions. “Every minute she played, she made the most of” Anderson says of Fadljevic. “She constantly made a big basket and came up with a great stop”.

          Co-captain Aimie Clydesdale fit the “young” and “speedy” parts of the team’s identity and was easily amongst the most improved players in the competition. Her field goal percentage jumped from 31% to 39% and her assists per game exactly doubled. She also showed signs of developing into a three-point threat, hitting twice as many three-pointers this season as in her previous two years combined.


AImie Clydesdale, pictured here in Dandenong's SEABL team back in 2013, had her best ever year for the Rangers.AImie Clydesdale, pictured here in Dandenong's SEABL team back in 2013, had her best ever year for the Rangers.

AImie Clydesdale, pictured here in Dandenong’s SEABL team back in 2013, had her best ever year for the Rangers.

“I could not be more proud of Aimie’s improvement” Anderson says. “When I first came in, I knew Aimie had it in her to be one of the most prominent point guards in the league, the way she holds the team together and thinks on her feet”.

          At the other end of the positional chart were bigs Jacinta Kennedy and Lauren Scherf. Still only 21, Scherf proved a good shot blocker and rates as one of Australia’s most promising centres. She could not have hoped for a better mentor than Jacinta Kennedy, who was again a revelation in her final year of a decorated career.

        For anyone outside the Dandenong setup, the continued productivity of Kennedy, who returned to top-level basketball in 2015/16 after a break of nine years, was remarkable, but it was no surprise to those who knew her well. “I had no doubts she would have an impact, she’s just an amazing person” Anderson says. “She just picked up where she left off”.

          Having coached Kennedy in the Dandenong Rangers SEABL team, Anderson convinced her to return to the top flight WNBL again. “I was sure she was up to it physically, it was more about the commitment it would take having a family and at the time her husband was still overseas. Thankfully she was able to make it work”.

          Another player Anderson coached at SEABL level, Amelia Todhunter, certainly did her share of annoying opponents and was a huge part of the grand final run, routinely being given major defensive assignments, picking up steals (46, third in league) and generally harassing opposing scorers and point guards.

          Todhunter was one of many former Dandenong Rangers Anderson has brought back into the fold.  She also helped recruit Rosie Fadljevic, Sara Blicavs and Steph Cumming, who she describes as “Dandenong through and through” back to the club. Thrown in mainstay Aimie Clydesdale, who has never played a minute for a rival club at Big V, SEABL or WNBL level, and the Rangers have remarkable continuity.


Dandenong have made a point of bringing juniors and former players back to the club. This includes Steph Cumming, pictured here with Aimie Clydesdale, after the team's 2011/2012 grand final win.Dandenong have made a point of bringing juniors and former players back to the club. This includes Steph Cumming, pictured here with Aimie Clydesdale, after the team's 2011/2012 grand final win.

Dandenong have made a point of bringing juniors and former players back to the club. This includes Steph Cumming, pictured here with Aimie Clydesdale, after the team’s 2011/2012 grand final win.

“I’ve got a lot of history with those players” Anderson says of the returning group. “They know exactly what I want from them. It’s really special to have that connection, but it’s also about creating an exciting new journey with a great group we have assembled ”.

         Similarly, Jacinta Kennedy, a revered figure at the club, will not be lost to the program as she moves into a new career as a teacher. She will be in around in some capacity, perhaps just as the team’s most high-profile fan. “We’re not letting her go anywhere” Anderson laughs.